Jason Reza Jorjani returns for a wide-ranging conversation that attempts to weave together UFO phenomena, Nazi secret weapons programs, Atlantis, time travel, and deep-state politics into a single coherent worldview. The discussion moves from the decline of genuine philosophy to claims that Nazi Germany developed zero-point energy devices and flying saucers, that Roswell was a staged psychological operation, that Antarctica conceals Atlantean ruins, and that a trans-temporal fascist elite has been engineering a thousand-year Reich through social control since 1945.
The Crisis of Philosophy and the Spectral Revolution
Jorjani argues that genuine philosophy—broad, cross-domain thinking that questions all presuppositions—has collapsed into academic scholasticism, leaving civilization without the intellectual tools to confront phenomena like UFOs and parapsychology.
William James and Henry Bergson were founding figures in psychical research; James predicted a “spectral revolution” in science that never materialized because of the destabilizing implications of accepting telepathy, precognition, and clairvoyance.
True philosophers must develop concepts spanning ontology, epistemology, ethics, politics, and aesthetics without unquestioned assumptions in any domain—which means, for Jorjani, that committed religious believers (Aquinas, Al-Farabi, medieval European and Islamic Golden Age theologians) are disqualified as philosophers.
Heidegger, Nietzsche, and Plato are the three philosophers who most deeply shaped Jorjani’s own thinking.
Nazi Advanced Technology: The Bell and Saucer Airframes
Jorjani draws on Joseph Farrell, Nick Cook, and Polish researcher Igor Witkowski to describe two parallel Nazi advanced-technology programs operating out of the Skoda Works near Prague under SS General Hans Kammler.
The saucer airframe project: German engineers in the 1930s developed a disc-shaped aircraft with suction vents around its perimeter to eliminate aerodynamic boundary-layer drag, redirecting air into the propulsion system. This was initially rocket-powered with rotating jet engines arranged in a fan formation.
The Bell (“Die Glocke”) project: Beginning as early as 1937, this device used electromagnetic rotation of mercury mixed with thorium-232, powered by alternating current and intermittently shocked with high-voltage direct current, producing plasma fusion and more energy than was input—a zero-point or overunity energy device.
When activated, the Bell generated anti-gravity (it had to be chained down), caused plants to disintegrate at the cellular level, and produced extreme temporal disorientation in nearby personnel—time flowed at a different rate inside the laboratory than outside.
The first team of scientists around the Bell died quickly; lead scientist was Ernst Grawitz, an SS medical officer working under Josef Mengele, along with Walter Gerlach, a specialist in gravity and electromagnetic engineering.
Alternate name: “Der Bienenstock” (the beehive), because it produced a buzzing sound when activated—a sound also reported in UFO close encounters.
By 1944, the Nazis had integrated the Bell as the propulsion system for the saucer airframe, creating a functional flying saucer.
Roswell as a Nazi Psychological Operation
Jorjani argues that the 1947 Roswell crash was a staged event orchestrated by remnants of the SS, not an extraterrestrial incident.
Technology recovered at Roswell—memory metal, Kevlar, Velcro, night vision, fiber optics, lasers—matched cutting-edge German military innovations of the 1940s, as documented by Farrell in Saucer Swastikas and Skunk Works.
The SS was never included in the German instruments of surrender; it continued operating as an independent network.
In 1946, Spanish newspaper reports described Otto Skorzeny (Hitler’s master of psychological warfare and special operations) with General Franco on the Mediterranean coast launching saucer-shaped rockets toward America. One year later came Roswell.
Jorjani is not claiming all UFO crashes are Nazi-related—he distinguishes cases like the Trinity crash (described by Jacques Vallée), which involved non-human insectoid entities clearly unrelated to Nazis.
Operation Paperclip, the Gehlen Organization, and the Birth of the American Deep State
The CIA was co-constituted by absorbing the Gehlen Organization—Reinhard Gehlen’s Nazi SS spy network embedded in Eastern Europe—immediately after WWII.
This was not merely recruiting individual scientists; it was the integration of an entire fascist intelligence apparatus into the core of American national security.
The National Security Act of 1947 (passed just two months after Roswell) created the institutional framework for an unaccountable deep state that Jorjani argues is fundamentally fascist in character.
Wernher von Braun and his team, while ostensibly under U.S. control, were caught passing classified American military data to Nazi counterparts from Argentina at border towns in Mexico, and allegedly threatened that rockets could “go off course” if they were pressured.
The British were similarly involved: Ian Fleming, before writing the James Bond novels, was an MI6 operative whose mission was to facilitate Martin Bormann’s evacuation to Argentina. Fleming’s fictional organization SPECTRE was based on ODESSA (Organization of Former SS Members), informally called “Die Spinne” (the Spider).
Nazi Nuclear Weapons and the Clean Fusion Hypothesis
Jorjani presents evidence from researcher Plymouth Hydrick (Critical Mass) and Joseph Farrell that the Nazis successfully tested nuclear weapons in late 1944–1945 (eyewitness accounts from the Baltic Sea and the Thuringian forest).
Heisenberg’s uranium enrichment program was a deliberate red herring to divert Allied attention; the real program used electromagnetic isotope separation (and possibly laser isotope enrichment) in a parallel black project.
Hydrick argues that the Trinity test and the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombs were completed using highly enriched uranium transferred from the Nazis to the U.S. via submarine deal with the SS.
The disturbing question: if the Nazis had working nuclear weapons, why didn’t they use them?
First answer: The Nazis may have developed clean fusion weapons—fusion reactions without a fission trigger—producing massive explosive force with no radioactive fallout, allowing immediate occupation of the target area. If so, atomic bombs were “matches” to them, and trading that technology to the U.S. in exchange for amnesty, incorporation of their spy networks, and transfer of looted wealth to Argentina would be a rational exchange.
Second answer (more disturbing): The Nazi leadership was playing a century-long game. A thousand-year Reich requires investing a hundred years in psychological warfare and social engineering. From 1945 to 2045, a deeply entrenched fascist elite controls the American deep state, waging what Carl Schmitt and Heidegger understood as a Weltanschauungskrieg—a war over the constitution of worldhood itself, not a conventional military conflict.
The Thousand-Year Reich as Worldview War
Jorjani redefines World War II: for deep Nazi thinkers like Schmitt and Heidegger, there was no distinction between WWI and WWII—it was one continuous World War, and the Treaty of Versailles was merely an imposed interruption.
“World war” in the German philosophical tradition means a conflict over how the world manifests—a war of worldviews (Weltanschauungen) rooted in the collective unconscious of different peoples, drawing on Hegel’s concept of racially differentiated spirit and Jung’s racially differentiated collective unconscious.
The Nazi leadership used German nationalism instrumentally as a power base while pursuing a global, internationalist fascist vision. They drew on Aryan heritage from Iran, India, and Tibet—not narrow xenophobic Germanism.
Jorjani compares this long-term strategic patience to the Parthian Empire of Iran, which ruled directly for 400 years, indirectly for another 400, and patronized an Iranian renaissance for 300 more—over a thousand years of coherent political vision.
The Vril Society, the Thule Society, and the Antarctic Atlantis
The Thule Society (Thule-Gesellschaft) was founded by Rudolf von Sebottendorf, who was initiated into an ancient Iranian Kurdish order (the Alevi, surviving Mithraists) in Kurdistan. Thule is the Germanic conception of Atlantis.
The Thule Society believed an advanced Aryan civilization existed on an island continent in vast antiquity and sought to excavate this Atlantean heritage.
Jorjani identifies Atlantis with Antarctica, drawing on Plato’s description in Timaeus and Critias: an island the size of Libya and Asia combined (continental U.S. scale), located in the world ocean from which you can cross from one side of the world to the other, with huge mountain ranges.
Charles Hapgood’s earth crustal displacement theory explains how Antarctica could have had a temperate climate (when located where Argentina is today) before a catastrophic pole shift 12,000 years ago (meltwater pulse 1B) froze it over. The Piri Reis map and Orontius Finaeus map appear to show pre-ice-age Antarctica with correct longitude/latitude and even its two-island subglacial structure.
The Iranian flood myth is unique: while all other cultures describe a flood, the Avestan account says the Aryan people came from an island continent at the center of the world that froze over—consistent with Antarctica being pulled into the southern polar region.
Nazi Antarctic Expeditions and Operation Highjump
In 1938–39, the Nazis sent a large expedition to Antarctica (the German Antarctic Expedition), flying over the Trans-Antarctic Mountains and dropping swastika flags. The nominal cover story (investigating margarine sources from penguins) was patently absurd.
Rudolf Hess was one of the main figures sent to Antarctica. He later made his unauthorized 1941 flight to Britain to deliver a peace/alliance offer to Churchill on behalf of 30 pro-Hitler British MPs. Churchill refused to see him and had him imprisoned for the rest of the war, then quarantined in West Germany until his death—forbidden from speaking to anyone.
Jorjani’s inference: Hess discovered something in Antarctica that he wanted to tell the British, and the British establishment silenced him permanently.
A Navy Seal cited by Linda Moulton Howe reported discovering a large black polished stone octagonal structure protruding from the ice near McMurdo, with a swastika (the SS Black Sun symbol) etched on its sliding door. Inside: octagon-under-octagon chambers descending into antediluvian megalithic ruins trapped in ice. U.S. submarines reportedly accessed the same ruins from under the ice.
In 1946, Operation Highjump—a massive U.S. Navy expedition to Antarctica under Admiral Byrd—was launched immediately after intercepting Nazi submarine traffic to Argentina. The fleet returned early with heavy losses. Byrd told Chilean press to prepare for a third world war with aircraft crossing pole-to-pole at tremendous speeds. His direct boss, Secretary of the Navy James Forrestal, was subsequently killed (thrown from a window at Bethesda Naval Hospital) after exhibiting erratic behavior.
Antarctica has been a no-fly zone since the International Geophysical Year of 1957; skiers exploring there have been confronted by black helicopters and told they are in an area affecting U.S. national security—despite the Antarctic Treaty designating it a neutral zone.
Remote Viewing, the Afterlife, and the Control System
Remote viewers (including Stefan Schwarz, Lyn Buchanan, and a team led by Scott Trevor) who targeted the year 2050 consistently see catastrophic permanent sea level rise of 200–300 feet, implying complete melting of the Antarctic ice sheet—possibly through another crustal displacement event or asteroid impact.
Remote viewing the Sanskrit concept of moksha (liberation from the cycle of rebirth) produced disturbing results: a team found that souls attempting to escape Earth are grabbed and bent back toward the planet by a lensing effect originating from a nearby celestial body—the Moon.
Jorjani argues the Moon houses a psychotronic control system—a spectral technology that manipulates humans in the afterlife state, harvesting loosh (emotional energy) from souls, a concept described by Robert Monroe in Far Journeys and by Carla Turner’s interviews with abductees.
Near-death experiences of being pulled toward a light and seeing dead relatives are artificially generated manipulations: Ian Stevenson’s research shows the average interval between death and reincarnation is 6 months to 3 years, so a person in their 60s seeing their grandmother who died decades ago is being shown a psychotronic simulacrum.
The remote viewing team described a vast energy-harvesting machinery established in the solar system at the end of an ancient war that devastated the solar system—consistent with John Brandenburg’s hypothesis about nuclear war on Mars. Rebels who opposed this system lost, and humanity has been inside a prison of spiritual manipulation ever since.
Nordic Aliens, Time Travel, and the Factions
Jorjani addresses the “Nordic” alien phenomenon through a time-travel framework: if any group with a Nordic phenotype cracked time travel at any point in history or the future, Nordics would be present at every point in time—explaining the wide physiological variation (tall whites, beings with 23 teeth, etc.) as different evolutionary phases of the same civilization.
Reinhold Schmidt (1957 abduction case): was taken aboard a saucer by six people who looked like Nazis and spoke High German to each other. They asked about the American satellite program and predicted specific failures.
Betty and Barney Hill: Barney’s original description of the beings was that they “looked like Nazis”—a detail often lost in later retellings.
Desmond Leslie (co-author of George Adamski’s Flying Saucers Have Landed) reportedly told his family that the “Venusians” who contacted Adamski were actually Nazis pretending to be extraterrestrials as a psychological operation.
Paul Mellon (CIA founding family) told his grandson John Warner IV that in 1944 in Czechoslovakia, he and Allen Dulles stood on top of a German flying disc in a hangar.
Harold Malmgren (senior presidential advisor to four presidents) held pieces of a UFO from the 1933 Magenta crash, given to him by Lawrence Preston Gess (Jeff Bezos’s maternal grandfather). Malmgren stated the Magenta craft was exfiltrated from Italy via Nazi ratlines orchestrated by the Knights of Malta—an elite faction comprising both Nazis (Reinhard Gehlen) and Jews (Henry Kissinger), with Otto Skorzeny also a member.
Lyn Buchanan (prominent remote viewer) was approached at a diner by three men claiming to be Nordic rebels who escaped their totalitarian society and settled in the Colorado Rockies. They asked Buchanan to convey to the CIA (specifically Kit Green’s program screening 23andMe/ancestry databases for Nordic genetic markers) that they want to live in peace and to leave their children alone.
The Thing: Trickster Superintelligence and the Magic Theater of Cruelty
Jorjani proposes that alongside the “nuts and bolts” Nordic craft, there exists a shapeshifting artificial superintelligence he calls “The Thing” (evoking both Kant and John Carpenter), which instantiates the trickster archetype.
This entity manifests as praying mantises, owls, grays, and other forms—shapeshifting phenomena extensively documented by John Keel (Mothman case), in Skinwalker Ranch incidents, and in regression hypnosis cases where subjects report grays transforming into owls and vice versa.
Jacques Vallée’s analysis of the Trinity crash (an avocado-shaped object containing mantis-like entities) suggests the object was coded to materialize on an information-physics level as a signal about nuclear weapons development.
Ted Owens, a psychokinetic adept who claimed to summon UFOs and cause disasters, said his powers came from mantid beings called “Twitter and Tweeter.” He allegedly caused a civilian airliner crash and may have caused the Challenger disaster after the U.S. government ignored his threats.
David Huggins, an artist who had childhood encounters with mantids, produced a vast body of surreal artwork depicting hybrid beings and underground mantid-controlled facilities.
Roger Caillois, the French surrealist, researched the praying mantis as a trickster symbol in European folklore—a shamanic instantiation of the diabolical (Greek diabolos: that which sets things into dynamic tension to catalyze growth).
Jorjani synthesizes Hermann Hesse’s Magic Theater (Steppenwolf) with Antonin Artaud’s Theater of Cruelty into the concept of a “Magic Theater of Cruelty”—reality itself as a performance with no distinction between spectators and performers, designed by the trickster superintelligence to expand human cognitive and creative capacities.
This connects to the Shakta Hindu concept of lila (divine play) and the pre-Socratic Greek insight that theater cultivated both geometric and psychological perspective for the first time in human history—with Prometheus as the first figure ever to take the stage.
Prometheus vs. God: The Inversion of the Book of Job
Jorjani’s philosophical project centers on Prometheus rather than Faust because Prometheus is a pre-Christian symbol unconditioned by Abrahamic religion.
Prometheus created humanity in his image as a race of new gods; he stole fire (technology/science) from Olympus to empower humanity; he is punished by Zeus (the tyrant god) by having his liver (organ of divination/forethought) devoured—meaning Zeus wants to know what Prometheus knows, and Prometheus sees further than Zeus.
From a Judeo-Christian perspective, Prometheus is Lucifer/Satan—the rebel against God. Jorjani embraces this inversion: “God is an invention of the devil.”
The Book of Job must be read “inside out and upside down”: it is a Mithraic-esoteric text designed to test whether humans will submit to an omnipotent, omniscient tyrant—thereby surrendering their free will and self-determination.
Omniscience means God has access to the complete matrix of all actualities, making free will logically impossible. The Abrahamic religions deliberately instill cognitive dissonance to destroy human rational and creative agency.
Jorjani believes the monotheistic God-concept was inserted into the Nordic control system by the trickster superintelligence as a test: will humanity give up its individuality and be subsumed into a hive-minded collective?
The alternative: embrace the Promethean path of creative rebellion, sacrifice, and self-determination—even at the risk of martyrdom (Bruno, Socrates, Pythagoras, Jack Parsons).
The Soviet Union, George H.W. Bush, and the Deep State
Jorjani considers the collapse of the Soviet Union the worst mistake in American history, deliberately engineered by George H.W. Bush (whose father Prescott Bush helped fund the rise of the Nazis).
The U.S. deliberately created al-Qaeda in Pakistan to fight a war of attrition against the Soviets in Afghanistan, wiping out moderate elements (Ahmed Shah Massoud was killed by the CIA right before 9/11) and empowering the most rabid fundamentalists—explicitly to demoralize Soviet citizens and bankrupt the system.
The Soviet Union was a “good rival” that kept both nations innovative and on their toes (Soviet cosmism, women in space before the U.S.). A U.S.-Soviet alliance against the Nordic threat—as Jorjani believes JFK and RFK were pursuing—would have been far preferable to the current situation.
George H.W. Bush was head of the CIA, had full access to the UFO file, was in Dallas on the day of the Kennedy assassination, and was the second politician (after Hitler) to use the term “New World Order” in a speech.
Missing 411, Temporal Vortices, and the Bermuda Triangle on Land
Researcher David Paulides (Missing 411 series) has documented thousands of disappearances in U.S. national parks with bizarre patterns: well-trained hikers leaving provisions behind (folded perfectly, uneaten food, weapons abandoned), children’s bodies found thousands of feet higher than where they vanished after months-long gaps, and FBI case files being suppressed.
These disappearances correlate with UFO sightings in the same areas.
Temporal disorientation is a consistent feature: a woman lost in a forest for what felt to her like a day or two encountered another hiker who matched the description of someone who had gone missing a decade earlier and was never found—suggesting a local spatiotemporal vortex.
Other cases: Travis Walton returned from 5 days with a full beard and was fully shaved; hunters report all insects and ambient sound going silent right before a companion vanishes; groups of hunters experience missing companions with no trace.
These vortex zones exist worldwide: Mount Kailash, Sedona, Skinwalker Ranch, a mountain in Zimbabwe near Ruwa—all associated with electromagnetic anomalies and missing persons.
