Scott Horton, director of the Libertarian Institute and host of The Scott Horton Show, has spent over two decades and 6,000 interviews studying American foreign policy, the military-industrial complex, and the forces driving U.S. interventionism. He explains how a libertarian framework — viewing government action as inherently distorting — helps make sense of decades of blowback, empire, and domestic decay. The conversation spans from his childhood political awakening in 1990s Austin through the Oklahoma City bombing, 9/11, the Iraq War, the Ukraine conflict, the 2026 U.S.-Israel war on Iran, and the deeper structural forces — especially the Israel lobby and the military-industrial complex — that he argues have effectively captured American governance.
How Scott Horton became a foreign policy analyst
Started his interview show in 2003 and has done 6,000 interviews; was assistant editor then editor of anti-war.com, now editorial director
Grew up in Austin, Texas in the 1980s and early 1990s, raised by barely left-of-center Democrats, spared the Reagan-worship common among his peers
Already knew about CIA cocaine trafficking from the Iran-Contra scandal before George H.W. Bush became president, likely from Austin’s dissident political culture
Supported the first Gulf War at age 15 purely out of curiosity about explosions, not out of respect for restoring Kuwait’s monarchy
Recognized early that Bush Sr.’s claim that a UN resolution could substitute for a congressional declaration of war was unconstitutional
The “New World Order” and early conspiracy thinking
Bush Sr. repeatedly used the phrase “New World Order” in major speeches, which aligned with pre-existing right-wing patriot fears of a one-world federal government under the UN
Horton initially believed this was a genuine plan for global government, but later realized it was not what Bush meant
The John Birch Society and similar groups warned of a coming world government; Horton now sees their analysis as partially wrong but partially right in that America’s imperial overextension is destroying the country regardless of intent
The real lesson: America is the world’s dominant power, and the question is whether it dominates Eurasia or Eurasia dominates itself
Oklahoma City bombing cover-up
Timothy McVey was present at Waco during the siege and was motivated by it
Multiple government informants and agents provocateurs helped McVey but were never prosecuted because doing so would have implicated FBI agents who had prior knowledge
The FBI was running a sting operation that went wrong — they were following one truck but the bombers used a second truck
Federal prosecutor Larry Mackey admitted that he and his team let guilty people go free to protect the death penalty case against McVey, not wanting to introduce reasonable doubt
The building housed ATF, Secret Service, and Agriculture Department offices, along with a daycare center where 20 children were killed
Horton argues the media cover-up succeeded not because of a secret conspiracy but because editors were “lazy and stupid”
Who really pulls the strings
Horton rejects the idea of a secret shadowy network; instead he points to what Ross Perot called “the special interests”: bankers, arms manufacturers, oil companies, agribusiness, and Israel
The neocons are the vanguard of the Israel lobby, with deep ties to the military-industrial complex
These factions have tens or hundreds of billions of dollars at stake annually and are completely embedded in the national government
Israel’s lobbying role in America is unique and inappropriate — a foreign government lobbying U.S. federal and state legislatures, including passing laws in poor states like Kentucky dictating who Texans can boycott
Horton argues America gets nothing from the relationship except terrorist attacks and bankrupt budgets; the $4 billion in annual aid to Israel is spent on American arms that are then used to destroy lives and property
The Skull and Bones/WASP establishment (Rockefellers, Morgans, Bushes) is largely gone; the old Anglo-American elite lost control of the empire it built, and now it’s up for grabs by the highest bidders
The military-industrial complex as a self-licking ice cream cone
The official military budget is $800 billion, but the real budget calculated by Winslow Wheeler is $1.5 trillion; they want to raise the official number to $1.5 trillion, putting the real total over $2 trillion
Interest payments on the national debt (approaching $40 trillion) now exceed the Pentagon budget and are the largest line item after Social Security
Horton’s analogy: all the income tax paid by every person in Florida goes to pay interest on the debt to the central bank of South Korea — it might as well be lit on fire
The Yemen war (2015-2022) was started because Mohammed bin Zayed of UAE and Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia called Obama and asked for help bombing the Houthis; Obama greenlit it with no public consultation
The war killed an estimated 300,000 people through excess deaths; it was fought with American planes, bombs, contractors, air traffic control, and midair refueling
Israel’s end-time prophecy and demographic strategy
Netanyahu told French Jews after terrorist attacks in France that they were “not French” and should “come home to Israel,” undermining their identity as French citizens
This serves a strategic purpose: stoking anti-Semitism to encourage diaspora Jews to move to Israel
The documentary Defamation by an Israeli Jew finds that the worst anti-Semite in the film is his own Jewish grandmother, a Zionist settler on the West Bank
Israeli propaganda constantly tells citizens that every non-Jew wakes up wanting to kill them, which serves to keep them dependent on the state and afraid to leave
In 2000, polls showed Israelis preferred a two-state solution, but if that wasn’t possible, they wanted Ariel Sharon — the very man who provoked the Second Intifada by visiting the Temple Mount
Wolfowitz Doctrine and the plan to reshape the Middle East
Paul Wolfowitz, deputy secretary of defense under Dick Cheney, wrote the Defense Planning Guidance for 1994, which established that America would be the dominant global power and no combination of powers should be able to challenge it
The doctrine overlaps significantly with Israeli interests; the neoconservatives who wrote it were closely tied to Israel and often argued there was no difference between Israeli and American interests
Wesley Clark was told by a Pentagon official in late 2001 that the U.S. planned to attack seven countries in five years: Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and Iran
This was essentially the “Clean Break” strategy written by David Wurmser (with Richard Perle) for Netanyahu in 1996, updated for the post-9/11 era
The idiotic thinking behind the 2nd Iraq War
The “Clean Break” strategy proposed removing Saddam Hussein so a Hashemite king (cousin of Jordan’s king) could be installed in Baghdad
The theory, based on assurances from Iraqi exile Ahmed Chalabi, was that the Hashemite bloodline (claiming descent from Prophet Muhammad) would give the king magical authority over Iraqi Shiites
The king would then tell Shiite religious leaders in Najaf to order Hezbollah to stop being enemies of Israel and become friends, and an oil pipeline would be built from Iraq to Haifa
This was completely wrong: the British had tried installing a Hashemite king in Iraq from the 1920s to the 1950s and it failed; the Shiites even issued a fatwa against cooperating with the Sunni kingdom
Ahmed Chalabi was a convicted embezzler from Jordan who had been burned by the CIA in the 1990s; he was caught leaking to Iran that the Americans had broken Iranian codes
The CIA and DIA believed Chalabi had been sent by Iran to lie to the neocons and convince them that war against Saddam would benefit Israel, getting America to do Iran’s dirty work
A Chalabi associate quoted him saying he “just needed the Jews to get what he wanted from Washington and would turn on them after that”
After the war, the U.S. installed the Dawa party and the Supreme Islamic Council — both Iranian-backed — in power, making Iran the real winner
David Wurmser, the intellectual architect of this scheme, still insists in 2025 that the Hashemite bloodline gives magical power over Shiites, even after the exact opposite of his predictions came true
Mossad agents dancing during 9/11
Five Israeli Mossad agents were filmed on top of a parking garage in New Jersey celebrating, high-fiving, and filming as the Twin Towers burned
They were working for Urban Moving Systems, a moving company that was their cover
The most benign explanation: they saw the towers hit, understood it was a kamikaze attack by Arabs, and celebrated because they thought it would be great for Israel
When pulled over by police, they said “the Palestinians are the problem” and “now you know what it’s like to be us”
A more serious interpretation: they knew the attack was coming, were tracking the hijackers, and failed to warn the U.S.
The FBI had received a general warning from Israel in August 2001 about Bin Laden operatives in the U.S., but nothing specific
What Netanyahu said on September 11th
On the night of September 11, 2001, Netanyahu told New York Times reporter James Bennett that the attack was “very good” for U.S.-Israel relations, then edited himself to say it would “generate immediate sympathy”
A decade later, Bennett published the full conversation in The Atlantic, revealing Netanyahu also said: “I wonder if the American people will blame us for this”
Netanyahu knew full well that al-Qaeda’s motive was American support for Israel’s violence against Palestinians and Lebanese
Bin Laden’s 1996 declaration of war was explicitly titled “Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places” — referring to U.S. bases in Saudi Arabia used to bomb Iraq
The first page of Bin Laden’s declaration ranted about the 1996 Qana massacre in Lebanon, where then-artillery officer Naftali Bennett called in a strike on a UN shelter killing 106 women and children
Mohamed Atta, the lead 9/11 hijacker, joined al-Qaeda specifically because of Bin Laden’s propaganda about American support for Israel killing children in Lebanon
11 of the 19 hijackers had fought on America’s side in Bosnia and Chechnya during the 1990s, showing the complex relationship between U.S. policy and jihadist movements
The U.S. is still funding the Taliban
The U.S. sends approximately $80 million every 10-14 days to Afghanistan under the Taliban, ostensibly for humanitarian aid
Horton argues this is a racket involving NGOs, State Department officials, and aid distribution networks
The money can be spent on whatever the Taliban wants, despite being labeled as food aid
Why Scott never believed in Trump
Horton never supported Trump, viewing him as Rudy Giuliani — someone who would abruptly tell the truth about horrible things but was fundamentally corrupt
Trump’s “America First” slogan was suggested to him by New York Times reporter David Sanger, who was trying to trap him by associating him with the pre-WWII America First Committee and Charles Lindbergh
The trap failed because most Americans didn’t know the historical context; they just heard “America First” and thought it sounded right
Horton argues Trump is essentially an Israeli agent, pointing to Jared Kushson’s influence and Trump’s consistent pro-Israel actions
Trump claimed the Obama nuclear deal would have given Iran nuclear weapons, which Horton calls “sub-Bush or Bill Clinton level lies”
How the Iran conflict will end
George W. Bush greatly enhanced Iranian power by removing Saddam and installing Iranian-backed parties in Baghdad
The 2026 war with Iran has similarly backfired: Iran demonstrated it can hit every American base in the region, from northern Iraq to Oman
Iran struck bases in Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman, Kuwait, and Jordan without destroying them, proving capability without triggering all-out war
Qatar’s main air base (Al Udeid, home of Central Command headquarters) was taken offline after Qatar asked the U.S. not to fly sorties to spare it from further attack
The Persian Gulf is no longer an “American lake” — the Carter Doctrine bluff has been called
Iran’s medium-range missile force and cheap drones ($50,000 vs. $1 million interceptors) give it asymmetric advantages
Trump has fewer off-ramps each day; Netanyahu promised him it would be easy, just as with Iraq
Iran deliberately missed barracks and avoided mass casualties in its counterstrikes, showing restraint to prevent escalation to nuclear weapons
Iran’s nuclear program
Iran has never made the political decision to build nuclear weapons, according to two unanimous National Intelligence Estimates (2007 and reaffirmed since) across all 18 U.S. intelligence agencies
Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard reaffirmed this assessment in February 2025 and in Senate testimony weeks before the war
Iran’s civilian nuclear program gives it a “latent nuclear deterrent” — the capability to build a weapon without having one, similar to Japan, Germany, and Brazil
Iran enriched to 60% uranium as a bargaining chip after Trump tore up the JCPOA in 2018 and after Israel assassinated nuclear scientist Mohsen Fakhrizadeh and sabotaged the Natanz facility
60% enriched uranium cannot be used for a nuclear weapon (requires above 90%); no weapons state enriches only to 60%
The JCPOA gave Iran its own frozen money back in exchange for expanded inspections and restrictions — it was a good deal for the U.S.
Trump’s claim that Iran was “two weeks away from a nuclear bomb” is a lie; even if they tried their absolute best, they could not have produced one in two weeks
Iran’s top nuclear target
If Iran had nuclear weapons, Israel would be most concerned, followed by Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and other Gulf states
China and Russia have been relatively supportive of diplomatic solutions; Putin helped get Iran to the table for the 2015 JCPOA
All major nuclear powers (U.S., Britain, France, Russia, China) oppose nuclear proliferation because it threatens their strategic position
Normalizing relations with Iran would eliminate their incentive to build nuclear weapons; the only threat they face is from America and Israel
Dick Cheney, as CEO of Halliburton in the 1990s, advocated normalizing relations with Iran and building an oil pipeline across Iran to the Gulf — the Israel lobby vetoed it
Trump’s path out of Iran conflict
Trump contradicts himself daily, saying a deal is imminent while also saying Iran is desperate and will give in
He compared his attack on Iran to Pearl Harbor when meeting the Japanese prime minister, asking “Why didn’t you tell us about Pearl Harbor?”
The U.S. sneak attack killed approximately 150-167 children at two schools, which Horton compares to the Oklahoma City bombing but with all children instead of 20
Trump said negotiators keep getting killed, implying Iranian hardliners — but Horton notes it was the Israelis who were targeting anyone the U.S. was talking to
Trump declared a ceasefire and said Israel was “forbidden” from bombing Lebanon; Israel immediately escalated bombing in Lebanon, ignoring him
Tucker Carlson concluded that Trump has been “enslaved” to Netanyahu’s will
Why Trump might be innocent in Epstein scandal
Horton doubts Trump hurt children or that the CIA has proof of it; if they did, they would have used it against him 10 years ago
The real leverage is likely financial (Sheldon and Miriam Adelson’s money) and personal flattery
Trump surrounds himself with far-right Israeli figures and is essentially a “phoenetic” — an Israeli Jewish nationalist in his own way
In a leaked private video, Trump said: “When people want me to do something, all they have to do is flatter me. I really like it when you tell me how great I am. In fact, I’ll even do bad things for very bad people if they’ll just tell me that I’m great”
Horton interprets this as almost certainly a reference to Netanyahu
Trump’s loyalty problem
Trump is desperate to be liked by people who used to dislike him, such as Lindsey Graham
He viciously attacks Republicans like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Thomas Massie for contradicting him on Israel
The Israel lobby (primarily APEC) maintains a list of 435 congressmen and systematically destroys anyone who crosses them by funding their opponents
APEC bragged about defeating Thomas Massie as a warning to other congressmen
There is no organized American patriot group with comparable money to counter the Israel lobby
Palestine
Palestinians are not from a neighboring country called Palestine; they are the indigenous population of the land Israel occupies, confined to the Gaza Strip and West Bank — the last 22% of historic Palestine
The situation is not a war between two nations but a “canned hunt” — like the U.S. fighting the Navajo on their own reservation
Israel’s AI programs “Lavender” and “Daddy’s Home” identify targets and then follow them home to kill them in front of their families or kill their entire families
Israeli snipers hold contests to see who can shoot Palestinians in specific body parts (elbows, eyes, genitals, knees) “for sport when they’re bored,” according to commanding officers
Israeli journalist outlet 972 MAG reported on these practices; the Committee to Protect Journalists documented cases where journalists were killed and then their families murdered after they left the house
Israeli forces use Palestinian civilians — including children and elderly — as human shields, forcing them to walk ahead of troops and enter houses first to check for booby traps
An IDF officer told Haaretz: “We keep a sub-army of Palestinian slaves”
Horton compares the Israeli regime to the Soviet communists under Stalin — “monsters” who claim to be the master race and treat non-Jews as subhuman (goyim)
Adolf Hitler vs. Winston Churchill
Horton argues both were very bad guys; there is no virtue in victimhood
He compares Churchill to George W. Bush — the establishment writes history to make them look better
World War II was Woodrow Wilson’s fault: by entering WWI and tilting the balance, he enabled the harsh Versailles Treaty that created the conditions for Hitler’s rise
Wilson bribed Russian leader Kerensky to stay in the war, which enabled the Bolshevik Revolution and the creation of the Soviet Union
The Versailles Treaty stripped German territories, imposed devastating reparations, and maintained a blockade that starved hundreds of thousands of Germans after the war ended
Hitler wanted to ally with England against the communists; Churchill followed the centuries-old English policy of going to war against whichever nation is most powerful on the continent
Neville Chamberlain gave a war guarantee to Poland (ruled by fascist colonels), which emboldened Poland to refuse negotiations with Germany over Danzig
Hitler then made the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact with Stalin to divide Poland, knowing he had to fight the Western democracies first
Chamberlain’s own foreign minister, Lord Halifax, said he should be locked in an insane asylum for giving the war guarantee
Britain had no ability to protect Poland anyway; Poland was handed to Stalin at the war’s end and enslaved until 1990
Churchill later said “I guess we stuck the wrong pig” after the Cold War began
FDR lied America into WWII through the MacCollum memo (an eight-point plan to provoke Japan), kept intelligence about the Pearl Harbor attack from commanders Kimmel and Short, and set up 3,000 American sailors to die
Secretary of War Stimson wrote in his diary that the Japanese must be “maneuvered into firing the first shot”
Hitler declared war on the U.S. hoping Japan would then declare war on the Soviet Union, dividing Soviet forces — but Japan didn’t, and Hitler’s blunder brought America into the European war
The FBI’s secret Epstein files
The FBI maintained a second set of books called “prohibited access files” — a parallel filing system for sensitive documents
These files were recently uncovered and are being examined for the first time
Horton believes they likely contain information about the Oklahoma City bombing, Elohim City, and other suppressed investigations
The FBI withheld boxes of evidence from McVey’s defense team even after Dan Rather’s reporting forced partial disclosure
Rick O’Hada, an FBI agent Horton interviewed, said his investigation of white supremacists at Elohim City was never disclosed
The Trump assassination plots
Ken Silva’s book The Trump Assassination Plots (published by the Libertarian Institute) examines the Butler, Pennsylvania shooter, the Florida golf course suspect, and debunked Iranian plots against Trump
The Butler shooter’s online identity was found despite government claims he had none
The Florida suspect had been to Ukraine and appeared in an ASOV battalion video (America’s proxy Nazi brigades fighting Russia), not a BlackRock commercial as initially reported
Horton speculates that intelligence agencies could identify people making unhinged threats online and push them toward action, though he acknowledges this is speculative
The Butler shooting was bizarre: the shooter got past Secret Service, snipers saw him but held fire, and local cops gave conflicting accounts of who was supposed to be watching
